17 years ago
in the description to the video Spin Failiures you wrote that he goes into a deep, fast spiral.
I would say it's more like a unintended SAT - produced throug the cravat. Even the sinkrate is not very high. Only the rotation is very fast.
And then always the same problem occurs: When the pilot pulls his emergency, it will be cashed by the gliders lines.
Do you, or anyone else have a good idea how to prevent a situation like that, seen in the video? IMHO there is too much height-loss between pulling and the stopped rotation.
Maybe even throwing the chute towards earth?
Or stall the glider and the throwing?
( btw: Nice Site! )
I was almost asking many questions about this subject but I see it`s been dicussed to death here long ago :)
But still would like to add this video as the slow decent rate seems to be another problem for the reserve to deploy !
The Problem is that the canopy cannot get inflated from the side. The canopy can only inflate if the airstream comes from direction of the pilot and not from the side, like it happens in a SAT when the reserve is catched by the glider.
I think you can accelerate the inflation by forcefully pulling the rescue's stretched risers. Grab the risers as high as you can and pull them down quickly. This should push some air in your canopy and inflates it a bit. If it doesn't work try it again. If it still doesn't work use your Quick-Outs, cut off your paraglider and hope that the paraglider's risers don't rip your reserve :-D
Any other ideas?
thank you for your explanations!
My mistake was, that I didn't thought about your twist. It's clear that no one would be able to stall the glider in twisted state.
I also agree, that, if there is not much height left, the reserve should be thrown ASAP.
But i'm still brooding for a way to prevent this 'reserve cashing' in 'SAT-like' states. It bothers me since several years. Until now, i only can imagine that there is a possibility in different speed and direction in which we throw the chute. Even if it will be cashed as usual, maybe there is the chance that it's almost open until this moment or at least opened wider. And this could be an advantage, because the more the chute is open, the more it stops the rotation and cannot get between the lines as lot as seen most times.
But this is all too theoretic. I think i will try over water sometime.
Always happy landing
I think there is no "really good direction" to throw out the reserve in this situation. As the spinning fast, the spin period time always will be shorter than the (long) time from throwing out - to the opening of the chute. It means that the spinning wing will have always one chance to incorporate the reserve.
It seems to be the best way to use the reserve ASAP, then control it's opening, even by pulling out from under the wing.
I had a similar situation as on the Spin failure video.
I had a hugh carvat on the right side and I throw my reserve to my right. IT stuck under my wing (like on the video) and it took me some time to sort it out.
Afterward I was thinking that it's better to throw the reserver behind you.
I ahd a right carvat and was turning to the right very fast, and as I throw my reserve, the glider turned over it. Maybe if I throw it behind me it has more time to infalte. Maybe :)
It's me who commited this spin failure. You are right, that was not a spiral at all. Sure, because the g-force was very low and the lines were much more vertical than horizontal.
On making stall: I tried it once, at the very beginning, then the twist blocked the brake lines, so I had no chance to repeat the stall. :(
It was just the lack of my experience, that I was slow in using the reserve. I was waiting for the miracle, to spin backward from the twist. Now I say, that a big cravat rules out releasing of twist, because of the missing pull-force in lines to draw aside. Spontaneous releasing of twist needs a whole, aside-tightened, canopy.
On throwing the chute towards earth: I am afraid this would not work. It just delays the opening of the chute, because the inflation of the chute needs tighten chute-lines pulling the reserve against the air. Throwing the chute towards earth yields more time until the pilot falls below the chute to tighten the chute-lines.
It was my mistake, that after throwing out the chute I did not checked the result immediately. I realized the malfunction too late, but when I noticed, I pulled out the chute lines from under the wing, then the reserve inflated (even in the last moment:).
Have soft landings, István
Very good questions...
First of all you are right, that spiral is more like a SAT, generated by the cravatte. I remember last year at Bregenzerwald Cup somebody spiralled down like this, with his reserve among the lines and it didn't open...Luckily he's still alive because of the deep snow, but everybody was really scared...
index.php?m=21&dl=83 Here you can find another short video of a very similar situation. The reserve seems to fall among the lines again but fortunately it opens fast somehow.
I don't know if it's possible to stall the wing in this situation? Maybe with an acro glider which has short and light brakes it's managable, but with a serial wing it's probably much more difficult. A test pilot told me the most important thing is not to let the glider to accelerate into this movement, so you have to stall the outside wing as early as youi can even by pulling the brake with both hands...
What do you think?
However, I think in this situation the circular shaped reserves have big advantage by the shape of the canopy itself. Even if you throw it into the glider or the lines when it starts to inflate it finds the way out and the lines slide down on the side. But with other reserves like the steerable Rogallo there's a risk to get an abnormal opening because the lines can stuck more easily on the top of the canopy. Fortunately I have the opportunity to choose which kind of reserve to throw :-)
See you soon!