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Dear experts

I am trying to learn rhythmic SAT

These are my 3 first tries

any expert out there - any comments regarding timing would be very much appreciated
better to learn it right from the beginning

when do I have to pull ?
when release ?

I have the impression that for the 3rd run, I was able to build up amplitude and get already a little in the right direction - is that impression right ??

THX a lot !

Latest Comments

sven.haller's picture

thanks a lot - again

now it is clear to me, at least in theory
it will be a long way to bring theory into practice, but at least now I know what I SHOULD do :-)

thanks a lot !!

KrisH's picture

When watching other videos, don't worry so much about trying to gauge where the pilot is vs the glider, it's very hard to tell from the distorted perspective. What you really care about is where you are relative to the horizon. Some definitions:

Straight and level flight, glider is at 12:00.
Nose down like a spiral, glider is at 3:00.
Directly inverted like at the top of the loop or tumbling glider is at 6:00
Glider directly behind the pilot, nose pointing towards the sky like superstall to infinite entrance, 9:00

When you are in the rhythmic, you first need to be able to identify where you are in the turn - this is why training asymmetric sat and old school tumbling (just entrance+antirhythmic) are so important, so that you can train your brain to process all the information. The critical moment to identify is 6:00, when your body passes the highest point above the horizon, which may or may not actually be "over" the glider depending on how high the rhythmic is going.

In addition to the visual information, you can use the physical sensations to identify this point. At the highest point, the g forces and wind noise will be least and everything will seem to be moving slower. This effect becomes more pronounced the higher you go, with little to no difference at the very beginning.

It is critical that you do not touch the brakes until AFTER you pass 6:00. The window opens at 6:30 or 7:00, but really you can wait as late as 9:00 and still get most of the effect. The brake input has the most effect on the glider as it builds up speed and G forces, with maximum effect right when you arrive under the glider at 12:00 - but like I said before if you hold even a microsecond past 12:00 it starts to rob precious energy. So in order to maximize the effect you really want to start braking around 7:00 or 8:00 and release at 11:59. You can of course release earlier safely, but you may struggle to build the rhythmic up high unless you have good wing loading.

sven.haller's picture

thanks a lot for the link - very instructive !

seems to be soooo easy :-)

dalechamberlain's picture

Check out the youtube video. Rhymic sat to infinity u turn black out. By Braedin butler.
You will see how fast his hand is going

sven.haller's picture

thanks a lot

I watched many videos (but find it difficult to see where the pilot is above or below the glider, notably on the 360° videos)

I am trying to understand in my head

so you say that in the end - the glider should WITH break a little less then 1/4 turn. Right ?
Just AFTER the glider passed BELOW the pilot - just BEFORE the gilder is at the highest point. Right ?

break input change should be FAST, and notably fully released (except for first pump)

correct ?

sven.haller's picture

thanks a lot for the comments - very much appreciated.
will try to do as suggested - in theory it seems clear, in practice is a different story...

KrisH's picture

Others have already identified the major issues: you are pulling and releasing too slow, and especially releasing too late. You need to pull quickly after passing the highest point above the horizon (similar timing as when to change weight shift on a wingover), and you need to release FAST at or just before passing through the bottom (with most speed and pressure in the glider). If you release even a tiny bit after passing the bottom it steals a ton of energy from the shoot. The release should be almost like punching upwards a microsecond before reaching the bottom.

It may be helpful if you first do some big asymmetric SAT to understand the timing. Don't do anything with the brakes, just shout PULL and RELEASE at when you think is the correct timing, then you can evaluate how your timing looks from the video. Also move your camera to your knee so you can see your weight shift and brake range better. Once you can identify the correct timing on the asy SAT you will be safer practicing the rhythmic, and waste less altitude pulling at the wrong time.

dalechamberlain's picture

When you release the brake release it fast and all the way up in one fast movement. Play around with different timing till you find what works. Lots of practise

slyski's picture

Don’t do so many pumps when learning because you are just wasting altitude, 3 or 4 pumps and exit.
Your timing is early.
Listen to the wing, when it gets quite it’s time to pull.
Pull harder and little deeper, make sure you release the brake completely between inputs.

dylan's picture

I think you are pulling and holding for too long. Your brake is also not fully releasing. The timing is mostly too early. As you build amplitude, the time between braking gets longer. Not an expert..