10 years ago
Which one guys, and why? I have been waiting and watching to see how these designs progress and turn into clean/refined products. Seems like it is time to step up and purchase one or the other. I have my own BASE canopy (Asylum 260 Seven), and was wondering what size each harness recommends. There is not really anything on the websites that give that information. What size canopy are people using in these?
As an experienced skydiver, wingsuiter, and BASE jumper, it is time to embrace the efficient cut away design for my paragliding reserve. Here is a fun little video testing with Nick Burden in the US on something he was working on a few years ago. Unfortunatley AVA and SUPAIR have the production base that Nick did not have access too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFBi5NxsBIk&list=UU7koakuFYn4UcqWYvVJL6ww
I also have a Beamer 3 and the damn thing never seems to come out on heading and without twists. Last two throws have been twisted up rides to the water. Impossible to untwist when attached to your glider. Any thoughts and/or help there as well?
Thanks, Jon Malmberg
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Hi,
regarding the harness choice; what has been said about weight, size and comfort about the normal harnesses (e.g. http://justacro.com/forum/equipment/7564/acro3-vs-ava-sport) pretty much holds for the BASE versions as well -- except that they are even bulkier; the Flugsau/AVA a little, the Supair quite a bit ;-)
One major difference is that the AVA comes without BASE canopy. This has advantages and disadvantages, see e.g.: http://justacro.com/forum/equipment/6769/ava-g2-base
While both BASE systems worked great so far, I am aware of some problems reported. However, beware that the following information might be no longer relevant as these harnesses are still improved. So I would suggest to talk to your dealer about known issues before you buy a particular harness.
In the AVA case the situation is a little complicated, as there are essentially two (very similar) versions. One is branded as Flugsau/AVA and one as AVA only. As far as I know the Flugsau version comes with a more robust container for the BASE canopy. Also incidents of loop damage upon deployment have occurred, however at least in my Flugsau version the sharp edge seems to me to far from the hole of the eyelet that this could happen. There are at least two versions of eyelets around ...
For the Supair I am only aware of that sketchy opening, that took a little long (but still worked fine) ... http://justacro.com/video/base-freefall/supair-base-system-test
Cheers,
Geri
Theo I don't understand your statement about crashing backwind with a Rogallo. Many rogallos (at least beamer 2 and 3) are folded with brakes pulled so on opening they sink vertically as a round does. You have to release brakes to make them go forward.
Also, as far as I know even round and square reserves have a slight asymetry by design to glide a bit and be more stable.
You are way more experienced than I in acro and reserve deployement (I never tossed), so your opinion has much more value than mine, but I don't understand!
Good discussion on the reserves. Thanks Theo and Qiv...
My plan is too keep both my Rogallo and Round and play around with both... over water of course :-)... until I can figure out which works better for me.
So, back to the harness choice... Come one, all these ACRO pilots out here must have an opinion on one over the other... I am in no rush as this is something I will pick up over this upcoming winter...
Thanks, Jon
As I said a Rogallo is something really really really useful I always work if you have just a bit time BUT when you have a base canopy as a main rescue you have already a rescue 100% steerable and working really good the 2nd rescue is only here in case of failure of the base canopy or in the case where you are into your glider. So in both these case you don't want another steerable rescue because you may have no time to tack back your glider, or to put your rogallo in the right direction and may crash backwind into an obstacle. While with a round one you will be landed safely sometimes harder but still you will be alive
Hi,
I have a Rogallo in my Flugsau base because I have heard other people talk as passionate about Rogallos as last reserve, as Theo talks about round ones ... They claim that folded Rogallos have more exposed edges that make inflation more reliable and faster. Rogallos have slower sinking rates and lead to softer landings, whether under control or not. This pilot even experienced the worst case where the Rogallo did not just pull away from the main, but the two canopies started spiraling around him. Still he would prefer a Rogallo over a round reserve any time ...
Anyways, if you want to go for a round reserve make sure it is really, really big ...
Cheers :-)
Hey Theo and Bastian,
Thanks for the very direct and very relevant feedback. Could not have asked for a better answer on the BASE rig size. So awesome that someone out there just happens to be using my exact canopy in these rigs. Thanks Bastian...
Theo, yup... I am using the Rogallo as my initial and have an Icaro Limit 22 round as my second.
Any thoughts on what should be used as a second when I get a BASE harness? Round or Rogallo??? The sink rate and rate of initial opening on the Beamer 3 is simply amazing and at that point, even if I can't steer it... it sure out performs the Icaro round.
So, no we can get down to the nitty gritty... Keep those comments coming and now directed to which system you would choose over the other and why... I am not going to have a very good opportunity here in the US to get to see either of these system close up and want every opinion out there before I make my choice. My current harness is the SupAir ACRO 3, which I very much enjoy. Comment away guys.
Just on little thing about rogallos : You must bring your whole glider back to you to untwist. OR you release it with a cutaway system. BUT a rogallo is steerable even with twists feel free to try you will see ;) just put some strength on the brake and stop focusing on the twist you will manage to put it on the axis you want.
Last thing here is how you should do when you throw your rogallo :
1. check the wind direction AND/OR obstacles
2. put your rogallo into front wind/OR into a direction going away from obstacles OR both if possible
3. bring your glider back to you as fast as possible (the whole glider) and put it in “bowl” between your legs OR release your glider as you want.
4. Untwist your rogallo if you have time
5. chose your landing point
6. stand up in the harness and and land
And one last tips that I think is useful (in my own opinion) always prefer to use a rond rescue as a second rescue. A rond rescue is an 100% safety rescue it will open fully, the wind direction won't matter and you will survive. A rogallo may open with twist if you are low you are in a lot of trouble you can't steer it or whatever you may injured badly.
Basically when you have to throw you second rescue you are in deep sh** and you want something that will open 100% and save your life no matter with or without injury. That's a rond rescue's job. So using a base harness I think you should always prefer a rond rescue as a second rescue, once again, my own opinion.
"deployments" not "employments" ;-)
Hi Jon,
I own the Asylum 260 Seven and use it without any problems in the AVA Base harness (including unmanned test employments and one real-life emergency deployment). It packs smaller than the Troll 255 that comes equipped with the Supair harness, so it should also fit the Supair container.
Cheers,
Bastian